Must uninstall Advanced Pack if the license is not renewed

[rabii]

I do understand your point and as mentioned you should be rewarded for the years of effort you put into this amazing product. My point was about developers who brought clients into espocrm space like 2/3 years were they understood that the license for extension should be renewed when they feel the want to (which was a very attractive offer to them) now with the transition i personally have clients emailing me asking why they see the expiration message appears so i had to explain the new license which contradict what they knew before and kind of disappoint them. I always advise my clients to renew the license and they are happy to do it but most of them are tiny business and sometimes they don't have enough cash to renew a license, so the timing is key here. Also it would be nice if you consider a good discount to encourage clients to renew, currently there is only 10% on a year license renewal and 30% on two year renewal, maybe if that could be improve it would help both the clients and also ensure streaming revenue for you as clients would feel of renewing. As i mentioned a lot of clients are using espocrm because they run tiny businesses and still struggle financially hence why this change might be difficult for them.

But again i understand your point of view and my point was just to find a way between to help clients but also help espocrm generate revenue to support the continuity of this amazing platform.

[yuri]

But are there alternatives other than returning back to the previous license model?

Having the current licensing model, the message is fair as it tells how it is. When the license is on subscription basis, it assumes that usage is not permitted after the expiration. We can't have a license that prohibits usage but don't tell users about that.

Speaking of alternatives. In the beginning, when we started, we could have applied 10x prices and had lived with less stress overall. It's how many recommend to do for startups. Years and efforts we have put into the product were driven mostly by our enthusiasm. I personally feel the current model is fair and giving us hopes for the future.

[yuri]

> Advanced pack, sales pack, voIP integration, Project Management and Google integration

It's quite a few, may feel costly indeed. Though we pay even larger checks for some software we need in our business, despite that having less functionality than Espo has.

[nand85579]

I feel yearly licensing is killing ESPOCRM.

I wanted to buy Advanced pack, sales pack, voIP integration, Project Management and Google integration, for my startup.

I am not going to keep upgrading my application once done and an expense of nearly 1000 USD per year, just for licenses is beyond my budget for a CRM of less than 10 users, forcing to look for alternative solution.

[rabii]

In my point of view a lot of developers/customers would not be happy as they might view this as a big change that could impact how they feel about the main product (Espocrm). But also i understand from business point of view why this has been implemented and totally believe that your team should be rewarded for the hard work you are doing. I would have though about an alternative to the current solution as (have to uninstall the extension from your instance and delete all downloaded extension packages to comply with licensing terms) is not good, customers will feel down with this message.

Definitely this is a complex situation from both sides but i hope there will be compromise from both sides to reach a good solution.

Anyway i guess feedback is important for the team to understand what works and what not.

[shalmaxb]

could the espoCRM team not consider something like a agency subscription. I use espoCRM quite exclusively to install it for clients, not for myself. I use third party extensions, which I can purchase with a discount to install it in my clients installations. I include the update fees into my price model in maintaining the client´s installtions. And acting that way it has some advantages:

1. My clients always have the most recent versions
2. I do not invoice the extensions directly to them, but included in my maintaining invoices. In the end, they pay but they do not consider it as "extra costs". I kno, it is more psycology, but it works.
3. The developers of the extensions get continuing payments from me.

[yuri]

> Have a great weekend!

Thanks. Though my weekends will be full of work as usual.

[yuri]

> Given that, I’m not entirely sure if the “pay or uninstall” clause was necessary.

When there's an option not to pay, the majority won't pay, or skip until the next update (which can take years). Even if they are fine to pay each year. It's like, I'm fine with paying taxes, but give me an option not to pay, I won't. It's just my thoughts based on observations.

> The reality is that most users don’t read license agreements in detail, and they’ll only start reacting when they receive an expiration notice. This will likely lead to frustration and complaints.

I believe that nowadays subscription basis is assumed by default, that users understand how it is.

[emillod]

If users wanted older versions of extensions to work with newer EspoCRM versions, it’s likely because they didn’t want to pay for a license renewal. In the past, they could simply stop updating their EspoCRM and continue using what they already had. There was a clear logic: “You’re paying for access to updates and support.” Now, with the new policy, they not only lose access to updates for the latest EspoCRM versions, but they also have to remove extensions. That’s a significant shift.

As you know, I see things from both sides — as a customer and as a developer. The reality is that most users don’t read license agreements in detail, and they’ll only start reacting when they receive an expiration notice. This will likely lead to frustration and complaints.

You mentioned that many users already thought of the extensions as a subscription, and they were willing to pay on that basis. Given that, I’m not entirely sure if the “pay or uninstall” clause was necessary. It seems like a step that might create more confusion and dissatisfaction among users.

I understand that EspoCRM is a team effort and not just you personally, but from our perspective, you’re the main point of contact. We don’t have direct communication with other members of your team, so we can only ask you to raise this issue internally and discuss it with your colleagues. On this stage i think that's all we can do

I respect your work and i hope that you'll reconsider this issue with your team.

Have a great weekend!

[yuri]

> between no longer having support and no longer being able to use the extension

Though, in practice, many users anticipated (sometimes demanded) that old versions of extensions will work with newer versions of EspoCRM. A lot anticipated even free support after expiration.

After some observation and analysis it became apparent that for the most of our customers the subscription model is fine. Many even assumed that it's already such (as it was not clear from the website for some period). One of the factors is that subscriptions is ubiquitous nowadays. I'm sure that for a business owner, having this input, it would be obvious that it's reasonable to switch.

> You are the most visible of the leadership team, which is why the association between you and EspoCRM is often made. You probably know that already, but FYI in case you don't. Sometimes the face of a company is chosen by the customers instead of the company's leadership team.

Yes. It's on the forum, as I'm the most active here. Though a significant portion of our users does not use the forum.

[bandtank]

From the technical point of view I'm in favor of the new license model as now we have much less burden of supporting older version of extensions for newer versions of EspoCRM. It took quite a lot of resources back in the day.

From the price point of view. I understand that it may frustrate companies who used to prefer to stay to old versions. But it should give us some additional revenue. We should be able to hire more specialist because as it is now it's not sustainable. We've been constantly overworking. Doing 3X work is not good.

That is fair enough. There is a difference, though, between no longer having support and no longer being able to use the extension. I understand the first option; I do not understand the second option.

From the other side, we sometimes hear: why your prices are so low. Companies even tend to stay away from products with lower prices associating it with sub-par quality.

I understand this as a business owner and engineer. However, cutting off the extension unless it has been renewed seems like a heavy-handed solution to the problem. The community is actively involved in development, and I am wondering if custom development, which is important to maintain in my opinion, will slow down. The advanced pack is essentially necessary for EspoCRM to work for many companies.

Please do not associate EspoCRM only with me. It's what I often see on the forum. We have multiple people and I'm not a CEO nor a sole owner.

You are the most visible of the leadership team, which is why the association between you and EspoCRM is often made. You probably know that already, but FYI in case you don't. Sometimes the face of a company is chosen by the customers instead of the company's leadership team.

[yuri]

From the technical point of view I'm in favor of the new license model as now we have much less burden of supporting older version of extensions for newer versions of EspoCRM. It took quite a lot of resources back in the day.

From the price point of view. I understand that it may frustrate companies who used to prefer to stay to old versions. But it should give us some additional revenue. We should be able to hire more specialist because as it is now it's not sustainable. We've been constantly overworking. Doing 3X work is not good.

From the other side, we sometimes hear: why your prices are so low. Companies even tend to stay away from products with lower prices associating it with sub-par quality.

Please do not associate EspoCRM only with me. It's what I often see on the forum. We have multiple people and I'm not a CEO nor a sole owner.

[esforim]

I did remember seeing an announcement about this on the forum but I skim through reading it as it was not too relevant for me. After reading this thread though...

I can only share my condolence if this is true and correct. The 'you won't get update' model is something I can stand behind. I cannot say the same for "renew now or forever hold your peace"

[bandtank]

emillod Thank you for the response.

We must also acknowledge the amount of effort required to maintain all of these products.

You are right - it is a lot of effort, and they deserve acknowledgement and fair compensation. I am surprised by the licensing terms, but I do not take issue with Yuri and his associates trying to make sustainable software. In other words, I recognize that this situation is complicated.

Today they have to start paying a subscription for extensions, and in a year or two, they may have to pay for using EspoCRM.

This is my exact concern.

[item]

Hello @emillod,

with google thanslate.. yes of course.. i have not negative .. EspoCrm is state of art for me, and i am certainly not the only one who think this...
It's a new licencing.. for me not a issue... just Yuri can propose like for you, a +x discount because you have many contribute opensource.

I see on github .. modified file.. i don't know if Yuri have holliday.

In resume : you contribute to espoCRM, in free extension on help on forum, on github.... Yuri can discount for you it's just a idea..

Best Regard Emillod